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Chapter 1782

It is the regret you will come to have. (2)

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Staring at the tent located in an isolated place, a hint of anxiety appeared on the faces of the Five Swords.

“….What could they be talking about?”

“Who knows.”

Yoon Jong, who was looking intently at the faint light leaking out, sighed.

“Anything, really. Maybe giving him some advice?”

“Advice?”

“Since he’s the Dalai Lama.”

“…”

“Even if their paths differ, after all, in accordance to the Buddhist teachings, he’s revered as the Living Buddha, isn’t he? If someone like that came all the way here personally, he must have had something he wanted to say to Chung Myung.”

Jo Geol subtly furrowed his brows.

“A Living Buddha… I’ve thought this before, but… can we really believe that?”

“…”

“Yes? Monk Hye Yeon, what do you think?”

“Why are you suddenly asking me… Potala Palace and Shaolin are different sects.”

Hye Yeon blushed in embarrassment.

“But still, it’s the same Buddhist way, right? You’d know better than us. Even if the path we follow is different from that of Wudang, we still understand the teachings of Wudang better than Monk Hye Yeon does.”

“Geol-ah, I think Monk Hye Yeon probably understands Wudang’s teachings better than you.”

“I think so too.”

“Me too.”

“You guys, seriously…”

Jo Geol growled like an angry puppy. Hye Yeon let out a short sigh.

‘A Living Buddha…’

According to Potala Palace, the Dalai Lama is an existence that lives eternally experiencing endless reincarnations. It is even said that after being reborn, he retains all the memories of his past lives.

If that is true…

“If the Dalai Lama truly reincarnates while retaining the memories of his past lives, it wouldn’t be inappropriate to call him a Buddha. It’s something ordinary people cannot do.”

“Ah…”

At Hye Yeon’s words, Yoon Jong gasped with a surprised expression.

It was said that the Buddhist sects of the Central Plains and Potala Palace kept each other at a subtle distance. Nevertheless, Hye Yeon seemed to acknowledge the existence of the Dalai Lama.

But at that moment, Hye Yeon opened his mouth with a clearly hesitant expression.

“However… if that’s the case, it might actually be a cause for concern.”

“Huh?”

Yoon Jong asked back with a puzzled face.

“Why is that?”

“Do you… know what the Buddhist scriptures are?”

Yoon Jong hesitated, unable to answer immediately. Jo Geol, on the other hand, flared up, his face twisting in anger.

“Hey, Monk. There’s a limit to underestimating people! What is it? Aren’t they the books that contain recordings of the Buddhist teachings? The ones you study and research. In Taoism, they’d be Taoist scriptures.”

As Jo Geol answered confidently, Hye Yeon slowly nodded.

“That is correct, Jo Geol Dojang.”

As Jo Geol was about to click his tongue to say, ‘As if I wouldn’t know that,’ Hye Yeon continued.

“And that is the problem.”

“…What?”

With a blank expression Jo Geol tilted his head. Hye Yeon gently closed his eyes and sighed.

“The Buddhist scriptures are what Buddhists must study. But what’s written inside is nothing but the words of Siddhartha Gautama [석가  釋迦(牟尼) or Shakyamuni and etc*].”

“…So what about that?”

“If one fully understands the words of Siddhartha Gautama, anyone can become a Buddha [부처**]. But in reality, that’s not the case. In other words, it means that no one has properly understood his words, and that’s why they’ve been studied repeatedly over hundreds of years.”

Jo Geol asked with a somewhat overwhelmed expression.

“…Are you saying all those numerous scriptures are entirely the Buddha’s words?”

“The reason the number of scriptures has increased is because Siddhartha Gautama’s words are so profound that countless people have added interpretations through long years of study.”

“Well…”

Jo Geol couldn’t help but feel bewildered. Taoist scriptures hadn’t come into being in that way, so it was an unexpected point.

“But why is that a cause for concern?”

Hye Yeon cast a deep, serious gaze towards Yoon Jong.

“As I have said, ordinary people cannot understand Siddhartha Gautama’s words even after hearing them. Even if they somehow think they understand, it’s almost impossible to grasp the profound true meaning hidden within.”

“…”

“But surely Siddhartha Gautama wouldn’t have been reluctant to teach and save sentient beings, would he?”

“…That wouldn’t be the case.”

Hye Yeon nodded emphatically.

“Yes. He did his utmost to convey and teach what he knew. But… it’s just that the foolish sentient beings couldn’t understand his noble intentions. That means…”

Yoon Jong’s eyes trembled slightly. He understood what Hye Yeon was trying to say.

“If the Dalai Lama is truly no different from a Living Buddha, as they say…”

A deep concern was evident in Hye Yeon’s voice.

“The meaning contained in his words is probably beyond what we can dare to comprehend. Even if the one he’s speaking to is Chung Myung Dojang.”

Hye Yeon closed his eyes and assumed the one-arm-bow stance***. A somewhat weary expression appeared on his face.

“Amitabha…”

Could those words get through to Chung Myung just because it’s him? No, perhaps precisely because it’s him, they might not.

The Chung Myung that Hye Yeon knows is like an embodiment of humanity itself: full of desire yet compassionate, turbulent yet serene.

Therefore, words discussing the principles of the world rather than human reasoning would be even less likely to reach Chung Myung’s ears.

‘Siju.’

Hye Yeon could only wish.

That this conversation would leave something, anything, with Chung Myung.

He just hoped that its traces wouldn’t become another source of confusion for him, who even now walks alone on a thorny path.

❀ ❀ ❀

“Don’t kill him? The one I hate the most?”

“Om Mani Padme Hum.”

After briefly reciting the mantra, the Dalai Lama nodded.

“Yes, that is what I am telling you.”

“Ha…….”

Chung Myung looked at the Dalai Lama with an expression of sheer disbelief and let out an exasperated sigh. So this is what he had to say…

“Even if he’s an evil being?”

“…”

“Even if he has led countless people to their deaths? Even if keeping him alive will push more people into hell?”

“…”

“You’re telling me to keep him alive without any plan?”

“That is correct, Siju.”

Chung Myung chuckled, his shoulders shaking with laughter. Anyone could tell that this laughter did not stem from goodwill.

Without completely wiping off his smile, Chung Myung sneered.

“Is this the so-called great mercy of Buddha?”

“……That is not the case.”

“Oh, or is it some prophecy from someone who has seen the future?”

The Dalai Lama shook his head.

“I cannot see the future. Regardless of what the world calls me, I am merely a humble ascetic [수행자 – suhaengja] trapped in a frail human body.”

Chung Myung gritted his teeth.

“Then what is the reason you’re spouting such nonsense?”

“Siju…”

“Shut your mouth.”

Chung Myung suddenly reached out and grabbed the tent, as if he might twist and tear it down at any moment.

“If you had eyes, you would have seen. If you had ears, you would have heard! What that bastard has done!”

“…”

“Can you spout such words even after seeing all the corpses along the way here? It seems the anguished cries of those people don’t reach your great Buddha at all!”

The Dalai Lama lowered his trembling eyelashes and recited a mantra.

“How could it not be heartbreaking and pitiful? So it is with all things. With everything.”

“…”

“I pity all beings wandering the sea of suffering. But, Siju, please accept my words as they are. I am telling you this to prevent a greater catastrophe.”

Chung Myung glared at the Dalai Lama as if he couldn’t believe what he was hearing.

“Do you know who it is that I hate?”

“I know.”

“And yet you tell me to spare him? Why? Because the Heavenly Demon has come back to life, so we should join hands and stand against him together? Are you telling me to forget everything that’s happened and happily join forces with him?”

Now Chung Myung’s sarcasm was closer to overflowing rage than mere mockery.

“Siju.”

“What on earth do you take him for…?”

“I will say it once more. You must accept my words as they are.”

The Dalai Lama opened and closed his mouth several times. His movements clearly showed his frustration.

“I… I have clearly told you what I wish to discuss. I am not talking about the world or the devil [마귀 – magwi – devil, demon, even Satan].”

The Dalai Lama looked directly at Chung Myung and spoke in a distinctive voice.

“What I am discussing is you, Siju. Do not forget that.”

“…What are you saying?”

“Once again…….”

However, at that moment, the Dalai Lama’s face turned pale, losing all color.

“Master! Are you all right?”

Panchen Lama hurriedly supported the Dalai Lama. But the Dalai Lama gently yet firmly pushed him away.

“I’m fine.”

“But…”

“Truly, I am fine.”

Unable to insist further, Panchen Lama reluctantly stepped back. After calming himself with a few mantras, the Dalai Lama looked at Chung Myung again.

“As one who is bound [restrained/meaning by his situation], this is all I can do.”

“…”

“Please remember. All of this is solely for your sake, Siju.”

The intention was clearly conveyed.

Chung Myung understood as well. Though what this man was saying was absurd and nonsensical, at least it stemmed from goodwill towards him.

But…

“In that case, you too – or rather, you as well – remember this.”

“…”

“I will kill him.”

“…”

“But it’s not because I hate him.”

A strange light flickered in the Dalai Lama’s eyes.

“Because it’s not right to let someone who has committed such sins live. Those who plunge people into misery just by being alive must be eliminated. Even if that means breaking the ‘prohibition against killing****’ that you speak of.”

“…”

“Sometimes, sternness can be a greater act of compassion. Therefore, those who bear responsibility must not hesitate. They must fully bear that weight themselves.”

As Chung Myung continued speaking, there wasn’t the slightest wavering in his gaze.

“That’s our way, not yours, and this is what I’ve learned. So I won’t hesitate. No matter what people say in the process, no matter what consequences my actions bring.”

The Dalai Lama’s gaze darkened as if sinking deeply.

“……What you’ve learned.”

“Yes.”

He then brought his hands together and bowed respectfully towards Chung Myung.

“I was being rude.”

“…”

“What you have learned, practiced, and are building is no less than our own path, but I let a moment of impatience get the better of me and spoke words without understanding. Please forgive me.”

Chung Myung did not reply. The Dalai Lama hesitated for a moment and then closed his eyes.

“And… if you have made up your mind, please steel your heart. Both suffering and regret in human life are all dependent on the heart. If you turn your head, you may find the other shore [피안(彼岸) – paramita – the way to enlightenment].”

The Dalai Lama dusted himself off, stood up, and offered Chung Myung a final bow.

“Then.”

With steps showing not the slightest regret, he walked out of the tent.

“Master!”

Panchen Lama, who was about to chase after him in confusion, hesitated and looked back at Chung Myung.

“Please do not simply regard this as rudeness, Siju.”

“…”

“It may be difficult to understand, but Master is sacrificing much to live within confines of human body. That is why he cannot fully express what he thinks.”

Chung Myung stared at Panchen Lama with a piercing gaze but offered no response.

“However, since it was something Master wished to convey, there must be a reason. Please do not forget this.”

Panchen Lama bowed respectfully and followed the Dalai Lama out of the tent.

Once again Chung Myung was left alone in the tent, the flickering candle casting its shadow over his face… The darkness that enveloped half his face gradually deepened.

“……Regret, you say.”

A subdued voice resonated softly. The koan [화두*****] the Dalai Lama had presented was wrapping around Chung Myung.

“Utter nonsense……”

After mulling it over briefly, Chung Myung firmly shook his head.

No matter how great the Dalai Lama was – even if he were truly a Buddha – it didn’t matter.

Because what he follows is neither the words of Buddha nor the splendor of Dharma.

What he has protected and what he must continue to uphold are already firmly engraved in his heart.

That teaching will guide Chung Myung.

‘Isn’t that right, Sect Leader Sahyeong?’

Chung Mun offered him no answer.

Next chapter >>>

________

*Here Hye Yeon specifically says 석가 here which refers to the Buddha as Siddhartha Gautama, who was the awaked one and a presumed founder of Buddhism, as far as I understood. More about him in wikipedia. 

**부처 refers to ‘any enlightened being’ who essentially became Buddha through enlightenment. In contrast to specific Buddha 석가 who is the founder. So that’s the difference between two words and why Hye Yeon uses them both.

***In Shaolin and Chan Buddhist traditions, there is a symbolic gesture involving one arm that aligns with martial and meditation practices, paying homage to Bodhidharma’s association with Shaolin and the martial discipline there (Bodhidharma is the one who cut off his arm). It was mentioned somewhere in the novel before. 

****살계(殺戒) – salgye – (Buddhism) prohibition against killing.

*****화두 – 話頭 – a riddle with no solution, used to provoke reflection on the inadequacy of logical reasoning, and to lead to enlightenment. Applies to zen buddhism. 

________

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55 responses to “Chapter 1782”

  1. Leiruc Avatar
    Leiruc

    I still believe that Jang Ilso will survive and join hands against the demonic sect. He is the only one who can control the entirety of the evil sects and we definitely need all the help we can get. But, it is nice to see that Chung Myungs beliefs do not waiver even in front of the Dalai Lama.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      BUT the martial arts of the evil path are extremely weak against demonic path.. sapa are kinda useless

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Leiruc Avatar
        Leiruc

        What else are Sapas besides meat shields? (Probably something Chung Myung would say).

        Liked by 3 people

      2. ellie Avatar
        ellie

        after discussing these all “sapa and demonic cult” thing w a friend i am now convinced that sapa is even more useless, than i thought. they would just literally see cultists and cheonma and say “f you, jang ilso.” and run away. this is the way of sapa. they dgaf about participating in the war i think

        Liked by 5 people

      3. Chu Avatar
        Chu

        … Yeah I could see it happens. Although JI would also have definitely planned for that and have a way to control them in acting the way he want to, as manipulating human nature is his speciality…

        Liked by 3 people

      4. Chu Avatar
        Chu

        And that made me thought! Is it because Cheonja-ma does not possess a human nature that JI feels so powerless against him, more than the incredible power Cheona-ma and the Demonic Cult possess? Because JI spend his whole life fighting humans by using their nature against them. It is his most honed and trusted weapon. And it is useless. Wow. Way to give a guy a complex. X)

        Liked by 5 people

  2. kyar Avatar
    kyar

    holy shit now I’m scared about what happened next…

    “And… if you have made up your mind, please steel your heart. Both suffering and regret in human life are all dependent on the heart. If you turn your head, you may find the other shore [피안(彼岸) – paramita – the way to enlightenment].”

    Maybe this is a hint Cheong Myeong will get another enlightenment not so far in future? Continuation of cm’s enlightment in haenam arc?

    anw five swords feel so incomplete without Baek Cheon…🫠

    Thank you Ellie for translating this chapt 💗

    Liked by 5 people

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      he need the enlightment!! honestly, i want a power up for cm so badly

      Liked by 8 people

      1. kyar Avatar
        kyar

        True!! At least he must reach geomjon level before battle with Cheonma!! (hopefully)

        Liked by 3 people

    2. Muskan Sangwan Avatar
      Muskan Sangwan

      he really should get that…maybe it’s the last piece of the puzzle let there be enlightenment let there be plot armor

      Liked by 2 people

      1. kyar Avatar
        kyar

        yeah.. hope the enlightenment will give us the answer to why cheongmyeong being reincarnated too

        Liked by 5 people

      2. Chu Avatar
        Chu

        True. It reminds me that, other than being falling from the sky, the other things that happened when he broke of his previous enlightenment was him pondering of the nature of living and dying, right? More than his fall, could it be that his cycle of life and death being outside of the norm is what broke his trance? Well, considering he probably would have fallen to his death if he didn’t broke out of it then, it’s definitely a good thing. Good job plot armor for not letting Chung Myung die from being enlightened too far from mother Earth.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. Muskan Sangwan Avatar
    Muskan Sangwan

    sooo the clown is dying it seems…but chungmyung did say he will kill jang il so like 3 times and he just walked off safely…but that clowns should die this time if cm has made up his mind.

    trust the plot armor

    trust the plot armor

    trust the plot armor

    trust the plot armor

    Liked by 7 people

  4. Peykun Avatar
    Peykun

    i trust chung myung but i dont trust biga i have no idea what to expect lmaooo

    Thank you Ellie for the chapter~

    Liked by 5 people

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      same. i don’t see where this is going, im blind here

      Liked by 1 person

    2. kyar Avatar
      kyar

      Same lol I can’t predict what will happen next

      Liked by 2 people

    3. Muskan Sangwan Avatar
      Muskan Sangwan

      im also losing trust in biga…is this normal? 😶‍🌫️

      Liked by 2 people

  5. HyogaDR Avatar
    HyogaDR

    this confirmed, the end will be CM + Ilsoo vs Cheon Ma

    lets hope it wont be too long until 3k++ chaps haha

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      at this point i wouldn’t say anything is confirmed

      Liked by 2 people

  6. tacopoliteb1c5e5d234 Avatar
    tacopoliteb1c5e5d234

    I enjoy reading the comments, and I read “Jang Ilso’s redemption,” tsk tsk, why can’t we have a villainous Chung Myung? It would be so sexy in that style with a flirtatious look as he takes you to hell.

    Okay, no, putting aside my delusions of seeing a villainous Chung Myung, because I want the rest of the characters to suffer for not wanting him the way I want them to want him, I think it’s not necessary for Jang Ilso to redeem himself, considering his interactions with Chung Myung and the meaning he gives to a Biga alliance between the lines, the answer is clear.

    Anyway, thanks for the chapter, dear translator, I love you.

    Liked by 8 people

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      “I want the rest of the characters to suffer for not wanting him the way I want them to want him” – i totally understand where the is coming from, same!

      Liked by 5 people

      1. Muskan Sangwan Avatar
        Muskan Sangwan

        i also second that because Mt hua and others underestimate the importance of chung myung and his words and actions. Looks like hca gon regret it big first and then everything will start to fall into place

        Liked by 3 people

    2. Muskan Sangwan Avatar
      Muskan Sangwan

      isnt jang ilso a villainous chungmyung….didnt cm say in early chapters that if he were to not come to Mt hua then he would’ve turned out to be ilso 💀

      Liked by 7 people

  7. Kozoe Avatar
    Kozoe

    thanks for the chapter

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Al Avatar
    Al

    Thanks for the translation !

    Hu… Only one thought comes to mind when reading this chapter… I’ve found the biggest secret…. that Bigga hides! The return of Mount hua is not a remake of Romeo and Juliet with a Buddhist background, as I’d come to think after reading the previous chapter, but rather the Korean remake of ‘Were’s Wally?’ version of ‘Where’s Hye Yeon?

    I’ve received the Taoist enlightenment just like Chung Myung! Haha, maybe I’ll become immortal! (You have to be to find Hye Yeon…)

    PS: Yeah… Jang Ilso is definitely the reincarnation of Chung Mun from the last words of this chapter….

    Liked by 3 people

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      LMAO im screaming. where is wally 💀🤣🤣

      Liked by 1 person

      1. yesneisyrogelia Avatar
        yesneisyrogelia

        🤣🤣

        Liked by 2 people

    2. Muskan Sangwan Avatar
      Muskan Sangwan

      omg 💀😂😂😂

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Chu Avatar
    Chu

    Thank you for translating the chapter!! I loved reading all of it!

    So what Dalai Lama said is that keeping JI alive isn’t necessarily for the good of Cheonumaeng, the world, or killing Cheonja-ma, but for CM himself…

    Then what pain and regret is it that CM will feel if JI dies? Could it be that during the time CM will be killing JI, something else will happen elsewhere that he could have stopped if he wasn’t killing JI at this time? Maybe the Demonic Cult… Not necessarily Cheonja-ma, but whatever event it is the heavenly executioner is currently planning?
    Or could it be because, which CM always try not to see the sapa he kills as humans, he always seem to fail to do the same when it comes to JI? Because he hates JI so much, but it’s because of the worst part of the humanity he always seems to see in him? That he always see him as a human? And maybe, because he seems to have a bond, one made of hate but a bond nonetheless, with JI?
    Because of this unique trust they have in the other abilities and this strange understanding of each others that they have, which often distorded, still let them perceive the other in a way no one else seems to be able to?
    I don’t think they are in any way precious to each other, nor do I think they will ever be, but I feel they are meaningful to each other. Both of them shaped a small part of themselves around the other, not because of any kind of care they have for the other, but because just by existing at the same place and time, they was unable to be unaffected by the other. Like when they fought the bishop and which JI was able to fight like CM usually do, without JI doing it CM wouldn’t have been able to see things from TB’s point of view when he covered for him in fights. JI, someone that claim trust has no meaning, still had to have absolute faith in that fact CM would have the ability and the will to cover for him and save his life, that he wouldn’t let his want to kill JI interfere with his current need to protect him so they could defeat the bishop. And CM had to see JI fighting like he usually do, or did, he had to see himself in JI. And that’s definitely something that would affect both of them, whether they accept it or not.
    And then there is this thing with JI, where he is like, “I feel a deep empty hole inside my soul but is obviously not loneliness and the human need for companionship because which every human seem to feel such a thing I am obviously the exception to humanity, this feeling is clearly an unending greed for the world and my still unfulfilled desire to conquere the world, for every human will always feel greed and I am of course no exception to that. And oh, I have found an interesting human, let’s make a deal so I help him with his revenge and he got to always stay by my side and help me with my evil schemes! No I’m not looking for a friend it’s just that it’s not that easy to do conquere the world alone and for once someone that look competent appeared, truly unique and never seen before, I have to keep this one and shape him so he fits me and the life I want to live and I will shape part of myself in return and do this thing he said about always smilling like I already have everything in the world. And also I will always tell him to speak his mind to me even though he never listen because I need someone that is honest with me to help me not because I need a friend or a companion that I can trust and I want to be able to listen to what he says, not at all! And his opinion doesn’t even matter to me personally I just think it would be neat if he started talking to me more directly. Not that he ever listen. And it’s not like anyone will ever be able to truly understand me I am the only one like me. Anyway. New interesting human just dropped! He hates me and I hate him right back but he’s really interesting and can hold his own against me and see through my intentions and oh what it is? He acts like everyone around him are toddlers and he has to do everything himself and can’t trust anyone? He doesn’t trust? Like me?? Let’s obsess over this fact because I’m not lonely or feel the need to find someone which I can relate to but I just think it’s interesting. But of course I don’t care and it doesn’t matter at all, let’s just find a way to kill him before he kill me, and yeah I had opportunity to kill him sooner and I didn’t but it’s because he was more useful to me alive but now he is really too dangerous and I have to destroy the things that matter the most to him- what do you mean the elites I sent to destroy Hwasan are all dead and didn’t even get to complete their mission. The Heavenly Demon is back? My dream is impossible? Nothing matter anymore and I will just destroy the world first before the Heavenly Demon get to do it. And oh, my subbordinate-not-a-friend gave me the opportunity to have a drink with the human-that-doesn’t-trust, of course it’s all for the plan and I’m only a little bit interested in doing that I’m not really really interested and am using this opportunity to distract myself from the depression of Cheonma being back. Oh I see the human-that-doesn’t-trust coming my way, time to invite him for a drink! But what. The human-that-doesn’t-trust says he trust? Inconditionally? There is a strange feeling in me but it’s not that I’m feeling betrayed because we’re not alike like I thought and I’m indeed the only one like me and no one can understand me ever? Not that I care? I am not lonely or anything and wasn’t looking for someone to relate to in my archnemesis? Who care. Not me. Anyway I have to go and destroy the world first I don’t have the time for that. And the people the human-that-doesn’t-not-trust put his trust in won against my subbordinate-not-a-friend? Well maybe I was wrong about what was going to happen but it doesn’t mean the human-that-doesn’t-not-trust is right about not not trusting, and trust is worthless anyway and I am not disappointed about not having someone like me who care anyway I already said it’s not me. And now my subbordinate-not-a-friend is telling me his mind directly for once and it’s to tell me I’m being not like myself. Nothing is going right ever.” Please ignore this very OOC attempt at JI’s internal voice, it’s just my take and anyway when is he going to get killed by a rock this guy takes way to much space inside my head.
    So anyway my point was, JI saw himself in CM and then realized that what he saw is wrong and he has unnamed feelings™ about that fact, and CM sees in JI who he could have been if no one (past-Hwasan, Tang Bo, current-Hwasan, and Cheonumaeng) taught him the importance of bonds and of caring and of not being alone. CM sees someone that can never be reached by these things he was taught, and that means what he sees isn’t only someone to kill but also a human, a living person, and which he has absolutely no love for JI and his desire to kill him is honest, I think it still means killing JI could hurt him, because he couldn’t do the same things he did for sapas and cultists to deny the fact that they are humans to make the act of killing them not as hurtful to him. I think anyone else in Cheonumaeng wouldn’t have the same problem with killing JI, because they see the horrible and inhuman things he commited but not the person behind them, when CM sees both and is unable to unsee either.
    You know how often people commiting revenge quest don’t feel satisfied after finishing the revenge but empty? I think it’s because they shaped so much of themselves around commiting this revenge that once they end it this part of themselves become purposeless. In that case, which CM’s goal isn’t as much revenge as justice, he still shaped a part of himself around it, and on the opposite of people that only see the person they want to take revenge against as the evil, he still sees JI as a human, and so on top of the emptiness of completing such a goal, he would have the feeling of having killed someone he sees part of himself into. And in case he notice JI’s loneliness and the fact that JI did try (in my opinion only I could very well be wrong about this interpretation), to fill part of this loneliness with CM’s existence, that it could hurt CM even more when he kills JI because killing a person already is an act that hurt, but even if you don’t care at all about this person, if you can see that, in his own way this person tried to reach for you, it could still make it even more hurtful. Especially when CM is so familiar with loneliness and it could cause him to see even more of himself in JI. And maybe it’s not so much JI’s death that would hurt him as the part of himself he saw in him which he still doesn’t know how to make peace with them and mourn his own pain and loneliness. Maybe. All just my own intepretation. But anyway IF it’s right, then like Dalai Lama said, it’s not JI dying that would cause CM pains, but CM killing him. So as long someone else kills him everything should be fine! 😀 Or a rock! I still think a rock falling on JI’s head is the solution to everything!! 😀 Please. Can a rock fall on JI’s head. Seriously. I know it would be really not epic but also. Chung Myung was hurt more than enough. Give him a rest!! 🙏🌸

    👀👀👀Woops. I ranted. Huh. If anyone ends up given up halfway instead of finishing reading this comment, I understand, I would probably give up too. I really shouldn’t have made this thing in one paragraph anyway, I’m not sure it’s even readable.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Muskan Sangwan Avatar
      Muskan Sangwan

      I read it all…wow…damn it’s long…anyways that makes a lot of sense (a lot more than mine)

      so ‘cm killing jis’ = greater regret than hell for chungmyung.

      I mean Dalai Lama did say do not killing jang il so to chung myung but he didn’t specifically say others should not killing him (but no one else is capable of killing jang il so without tooo many sacrifices.

      anyways your rant did give a really nice pov to the current situation…thanks a lot

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Chu Avatar
        Chu

        Maybe which Baek Cheon is having his sad depression arc, he will kick a rock from a cliff and under this cliff there will be Jang Ilso. And then BC will reach illumination and be able to continue his cultivation using only immortal energy because that isn’t stocked in his dantian so he shouldn’t have lost it… Although he also never learned to use it yet. When is the fact that he (and this cool Wudang guy which I am currently too tired to remember the name of but is really cool and also lost his cultivation) should be able to use immortal energy (is it even the right name? it’s in the middle of the night and I’m doubting all of my knowledge-) like they are taoist that cultivated and learned the tao since a while? Or is a dantian or spiritual energy still needed to use immortal energy? Well, it’s probably just me wishing for the impossible. The BC killing JI with a rock and then reaching illumination part, I mean.

        I’m glad you appreciated my rant! It was my pleasure and you’re welcome!

        Liked by 4 people

    2. tacopoliteb1c5e5d234 Avatar
      tacopoliteb1c5e5d234

      Baek Cheon seeing that he accidentally killed Jang Ilso: Lol, that’s bad

      For crazy people like Chung Myung and Jang Ilso, the existence of the other makes it easier to achieve their goals (mentioned in the novel). The threat posed by Jang Ilso made it easier for Chung Myung to gather the other sects, in the same way, Jang Ilso was able to make use of the Sapas. So if Jang Ilso dies, the Sapas, especially his dog, will say: “Whatever, let’s party?” No, without Jang Ilso, that crazy follower of his and the others will kill without control. The existence of the other is what maintains the balance.

      Besides, in the war, everyone will be needed, regardless of whether they are children or elders, something that happened in the previous war. Killing more Sapas or Taoists would make the war more complicated.

      And regarding Baek Cheon, maybe he will never recover his powers and become the hero closest to ordinary humans, a leader who will show civilians that they can fight for their lives even without internal energy.

      Although there is also the option that if Chung Myung is going to kill Jang Ilso, they kill him and he ends up as a ghost. If that happens, I would say, “Ay vv, andas valiendo madres y te quieres bajar a un thyrad, estas bien pendejo”

      Lmao, we have different and complementary points of view, but we agree that we want a rock to fall on him.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. ellie Avatar
        ellie

        hm. civilian hero beak cheon sounds kind of plausible

        Like

      2. Chu Avatar
        Chu

        Maybe he could get Cheonja-ma with the next rock.

        Which it’s true JI will always be able to be (now whether he want to be or not…) useful in one way or another because of his abilities and influence, the moment it is known that Cheonja-ma came back, it is likely the effect JI had when it comes to making the groups from the orthodox faction (or whatever it’s called) cooperate will be topped by how they are going to react to the Heavenly Demon being back. Except if they sink into depression instead, but hopefully not everyone will pull a JI…

        Yeah, it’s honestly possible BC will never be able to go back on the path of cultivation. It’s painful for several reason, one which I think a lot about is that even if most people survive the war including him, his life will be much shorter than them :’D And he helped CM feels less lonely a lot… What hurt evenmore is the very real possibility he won’t be a part of Hwasan ever again though- I don’t think he ever was officially taken out of Cheonumaeng, which I don’t know if this will become something more or if it’s just me hoping (like with the immortal qi XD). But even without cultivation or Hwasan, I agree BC is still someone great either way, and it’s likely he will be able to accomplish great things too.

        CM being haunted by JI… Indeed. That would be a pain worse than hell.

        Yes. A rock is still the best way. Like that JI will haunt the rock instead. Maybe he will even die in a really boring place and his ghost will dissipate because he couldn’t take the boredom.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. bimosantoso Avatar
    bimosantoso

    the kid that CM saved when facing demonic sect is the heavenly demon, thats why Dalai Lama asked him not to kill

    Like

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      doubt that. why would cm hate him

      Like

  11. SlyWlf Avatar
    SlyWlf

    thank you for your hard work!

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Yuta Avatar
    Yuta

    It says the five swords, but they are no longer five 🫠

    Or did He Yun join them … but he still from Shaolin 🤯

    Thank you for the chapter!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      the name didn’t change to “four swords” so we have what we have 👍🏻

      Liked by 2 people

  13. Asya Avatar
    Asya

    Now this is a bit of a long theory, but I really wanted to share since I’m really interested in the Buddhist undertones here. After reading Dalai Lama’s and Cheong Myeong’s first and second meetings back to back, it got me thinking. Do you remember how Panchen Lama recalled “The devil will return. The devil, who has lost his karma, growls in fury and the river of anguish… if we do not intervene, the world will be consumed by darkness, devoid of any light.” which was said by the previous Dalai Lama to Potala Palace ancestors? (around ch 552)

    I had thought that this was in relation to the Heavenly Demon, the first I read it, but what if it was referring to this juncture of Cheong Myeong’s life? In both meetings, they speak of The Three Asankhya Kalpas, which is basically this thought that the Buddha spent three sets of ‘Asankhya (innumerable) ‘Kalpa (eon), grasping different sets of enlightenments for three vast eons before reaching Buddhahood.

    I feel like Cheong Myeong mentioning how this time’s inner demons are different, and that they should not have appeared before he reached his past glory, foreshadows another type of enlightenment. He also specifically recalls the Three Asankhya Kalpas, despite this thought seemingly having no relation to the conversation. And the Dalai Lama appears sorrowful, in my opinion, because Cheong Myeong, despite being on the brink of supreme enlightenment, wonders what becomes of a person who becomes one with his inner demons rather than overcoming them and reaching nirvana (around ch 1755). And in this meeting, he asks what use Buddhas and immortals are if they simply watch, further getting away from the answer, and eventually only harming his mind and himself.

    Since the world is a sea of suffering, I don’t see why the Dalai Lama would try to speak of what might follow after Cheong Myeong kills his most hated person in relation to the coming of the Heavenly Demon and/or the subsequent bloodshed. This is kind of strengthened when he says “I’m not speaking of the world or the devil.. I’m speaking of you..”, but then gets restrained by the, I guess, the Heavenly Law. He also subtly hints that (in the previous chapters) Cheong Myeong’s suffering is different, but not exactly different. What would cause the Dalai Lama, who sees the entirety of the sea of suffering as it is, referring to the fact that suffering is everywhere he looks, to view Cheong Myeong’s suffering differently? In the inhumane’s words, it is still not different and within Samsara, but perhaps he mentions it first because it is on the brink of something bigger, like a nirvana.

    As Cheong Myeong says, the inhumane ones cannot properly see the world from the eyes of humans, and therefore cannot communicate on the same wavelength. To add onto that, they are seemingly also restricted, and can only speak of the truth as it is, NOT in the way that they know the other party can grasp, and NOT in the way they ‘feel’, as Buddhist nirvana also signifies liberation from emotional attachments. As the Dalai Lama refers to himself as ‘trapped in a human body’, and essentially walking on the Impure Land, what he experienced to reach nirvana can also be considered ‘normal’ and within the cycle, and that is why when Cheong Myeong states that everyone experiences suffering/regret, he cannot refute the claim, not able to simply state a difference, as there is none, in inhumane terms.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      thank you, this is quite solid

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Chu Avatar
      Chu

      Very interesting comment, thank you for sharing it with us! It definitely gave me some thoughts.

      Liked by 1 person

  14. Asya Avatar
    Asya

    Thanks a lot for the translation Ellie!

    So this rant will be very long, but I’m very interested in the heavy Buddhist flavor in this chapter and want to share my personal interpretation with y’all.

    Reading Dalai Lama and Cheong Myeong’s first and second meetings back to back, things appeared a bit different from when I first thought about it. If you recall, around ch 552, this had happened:

    This was because he (Panchen Lama) recalled the prophetic words of the Great Living Buddha of their ancestors before his passing.

    – The devil will return. The devil, who has lost his karma, growls in fury and the river of anguish… if we do not intervene, the world will be consumed by darkness, devoid of any light.

    Around ch 550, they had talked about the Three Asaṅkhyeya Kalpa – which roughly translates to “(three) innumerable eons”. It’s a thought about how Buddha spent 3 vast eons, and these were separated into 3 due to the different sets of enlightenments he reached before reincarnating as Prince Siddhartha, and eventually reaching nirvana under the Bodhi tree as Siddhartha Gautama. In the current meeting as well, Cheong Myeong recalls ‘The Three Asaṅkhyeya Kalpa’, despite not clearly understanding it, and despite these words seemingly having no relation to the discussion at hand.

    Around the same time, the Dalai Lama had commented how Cheong Myeong was a wick burning in the darkness, but was going to eventually burn out (meaning without him, it truly becomes what is prophesied – the world devoid of any light). Now, this can be interpreted as Cheong Myeong being the hero against the Heavenly Demon, but I interpret it differently now. When you look at it from another point, it might also mean that when his wick burns out, he will become the demon whose karma is lost (who is consumed by his inner demons and drowning in the river of anguish, or under the weight of his regrets). When you think about it, they are only intervening in Cheong Myeong’s path, rather than trying to address the second coming of the Heavenly Demon. We, readers, think of Geomjon as the key against the Heavenly Demon, but if we were to look at it from the perspective of the Potala Palace, which seemingly housed this prophecy since the last generation, they might have intervened in a more logical way, going as far as to organize the jianghu before it fell apart. The Dalai Lama might not have necessarily intervened, but considering that the Panchen Lama was in the know of this prophecy as well, it feels like his meeting with Cheong Myeong also gains meaning, in his words, “All relationships hold meaning. Meeting the Taoist here might not just be a coincidence.”

    Like a hint, in ch 552, the Panchen Lama shares a conversation with Cheong Myeong, when the following words are exchanged:

    “I have something to share with you, Taoist.”

    As Chung Myung maintained his gaze on him, the Panchen Lama clasped his hands together and chanted.

    “We all bear life’s pains because anguish is ingrained in our human nature.”

    “Anguish, huh…”

    Later Panchen Lama to Cheong Myeong:

    “Please, overcome the agony.”

    This thought can be further extended to Jang Ilso, who might become the trigger that causes Cheong Myeong to lose himself if he kills him, rather than being related to joining forces against the Heavenly Demon. I think in relation to why his death is so important, Chu’s comment under this same chapter is very solid. I think they are the perfect rivals that not only balance out the status quo in the jianghu but also each other. If you think about it, Jang Ilso only burned the bridges after being affected by the coming of the Heavenly Demon. 

    Around ch 1755, while Cheong Myeong was battling inner demons and nightmares, he wondered why this time’s inner demons were so different than others, and why he was getting them now despite not yet having reached the glory he had had as Geomjon. In Taoist cultivation, enlightenment is of the spirit and mind, not the body (simply put, grasping heavenly laws to ascend to higher heights, different from overcoming physical limitations of the body). Although one can succumb to inner demons at any time, Geomjon, who had overcome many inner demons for the sake of spiritual enlightenment, knows the nature and type of inner demons he has or might have. Him questioning the nature of his inner demons is very apparent in that chapter, and I believe it is a hint that it is not simply due to his broken mind. 

    Two other points stuck in my mind. Around ch 1755, Cheong Myeong had wondered what would happen to a person who became one with his inner demons, rather than conquering them and reaching enlightenment. Him specifically mentioning Buddhas and immortals at that part made me think that this time’s inner demons were for that final step towards immortality. At the end of his thoughts, he was afraid, not wanting to think of the answer. In this meeting with the Dalai Lama, his outcry-like questions of why Buddhas and immortals, despite reaching unsurpassable heights, never look at the humane ones; and how he questions, “Where are the Buddhas and immortals?”, made me think that these two events were connected. He was at the juncture of, basically, either becoming the demon, or surpassing human limits. This was why I thought Panchen Lama’s section around ch 552 was given in relation to Cheong Myeong. In the end, the one who said those prophetic words was the Dalai Lama himself, and after presumably remembering his past lives in his seclusion in the Potala Palace, he had reached a certain conclusion and taken this pilgrimage to ‘lead Cheong Myeong onto the right path’. 

    The Dalai Lama, despite seeing the sea of suffering as it is, talks about regret and suffering, and says that he came to discuss Cheong Myeong’s life. However, what would make the inhuman one, who sees suffering everywhere he looks, specifically talk about Cheong Myeong’s suffering as if it were different? Why would he feel sorrow when he looks at Cheong Myeong? What would prompt him to almost hint that his suffering is different from others?

    As Cheong Myeong says, the inhuman ones cannot see the world as humans see, and therefore cannot communicate on the same wavelength. To add to that, the Dalai Lama can seemingly only speak of the ‘truth’, NOT in a way that he knows the other party will understand, and NOT of his personal feelings, as reaching nirvana is supposed to liberate the mortal from the 7 emotions and 6 desires. At that point, when the Dalai Lama is trying to emphasize that ‘he has come to specifically speak about Cheong Myeong himself’, he gets restricted, presumably by the Heavenly Law. When Cheong Myeong says that everyone feels regret/suffering, and asks what is different about his case, the Dalai Lama has to say that he is not different. The path to complete liberation, however close one may be to the goal, is within the Samsara, and he cannot refute such a claim and outright say that Cheong Myeong is different, despite trying to get him to realize that truth.

    The Dalai Lama says that ‘he is trapped in a human body, and cannot see the future’. This would mean that he sees suffering as it is, and the emotions and desires reflected in humans, not necessarily the outcome. However, what if the ones outside of the cycle, inhuman ones, have a connection in some shape or form? This is evident when the Dalai Lama says something along the lines of ‘you felt that too, didn’t you, Siju?’, referring to the second coming of the Heavenly Demon. Why would the Dalai Lama himself not feel a certain connection to Cheong Myeong (and Heavenly Demon)? I think this is best illustrated by how he makes his emotions apparent only in his presence, as well as what happened with Panchen Lama in the previous chapter: “Panchen Lama serves right beside the Dalai Lama. In all the world, what could carry more weight than the words of the Dalai Lama?” (Referring to the severity carried in Cheong Myeong’s words.)

    Assuming that the connection among the inhuman ones is possible, the Dalai Lama might very well have come because Cheong Myeong is at the end of his journey, and he sensed it. However, as Hye Yeon comments, Cheong Myeong, who is the ‘most human’, could he even understand the Dalai Lama’s words? I feel like the line dividing supreme enlightenment and becoming a demon is emotions, or it is painted in that way here, so that through loss, the author is trying to get Cheong Myeong to the point that he virtually escapes the sea of suffering through discovering the limitless cycle of life and death. In chapter 1353, when Cheong Myeong entered enlightenment briefly, he mulled over the laws governing life, continuity, and how everything comes back in a circle, the Taiji. Compare that to the enlightenments received by Yoon Jong (when he describes the immortal energy), Baek Cheon (finding meaning in his existence), or Jo Geol; don’t they seem a lot farther from being able to question the Taiji? I felt that the enlightenment that came over him was the Dharma that he briefly grasped, and now, if he essentially discovers the meaning of ‘life’, which he describes as ‘both an end and a beginning, a conclusion and a continuation…’, he will be able to ‘comprehend’ the sea of suffering. As the Panchen Lama says, “To comprehend it is to realize it. Then, wouldn’t you, too, be a Buddha? (ch 552)” 

    I don’t know, purely because of the spiritual connections behind these scenes across more than 1000 chapters, I lean towards this theory about ch 1782 basically signalling the end of Cheong Myeong’s Three Asaṅkhyeya Kalpas, and it essentially connects all the past chapters together. Hopefully, we will see a different kind of Cheong Myeong born out of his ashes at the end of this arc. Just like the Dalai Lama has his own path, where he keeps coming back and can understand the Dharma; The Demon Child of Heaven, who prevents liberation (almost spoken in ch 1780 as if he is the Devil in the conventional sense, where it is his role, not his conscious choice or desire), I hope Cheong Myeong chooses his own path and liberates himself to an image that aligns with how Buddhas and immortals should be in his mind. 

    Liked by 4 people

    1. ellie Avatar
      ellie

      i hope you are right because at this point cm deserves for his suffering to end

      Liked by 4 people

    2. Chu Avatar
      Chu

      Thank you for all of that. Some of these views reflect the ones I have. Especially the way CM’s enlightenment seem to be coming closed, inevitable. It’s actually something that scares me, because if it was to happen, then it’s likely CM too would become unable to communicate proprely with the people around him, from his heart or from the point of views he knows they would be able to understand, if not exactly like, then at least similarly to Dalai Lama. And I also agree it seems the other option would be falling to his inner demon, and becoming a being not unlike Cheonja-ma, or pehaps even the true Cheonma, as we was told the one currently being named that is not trully worthy of this name yet.

      It’s why I hope there is a third option going forward for him, not becoming a Buddha or a Demon. Of course, CM is a taoist, so logically what he would become is an Immortal/Xian, and although it could mean he would still be restricted by the “Heavenly Law” or whatever restrictions there can be for being that surpassed humanhood, unlike the Buddhism that teaches “non-self” where one must usually unlearn emotions and their sense of self to reach enlightenment and cut their karma and leaves the sea of suffering, taoism teaches the refinement of self and to incorporate and realize the tao through your own self by understanding the world and its essence, meaning there might be different restriction for an Immortal than for a Buddha.
      (I am however not a specialist about either religions, so my understanding can be faulty)

      But what I’m hoping for is a bit different, I wish he could stay human, or have his enlightenment centered around the heart, the self, and what it meant to be human to him. In part it is because of the conversation he had with HJ in chapter 1209 “If pursuing Tao means following what is natural, and humans are also part of nature, then can’t following human heart also be considered Tao?” which makes me hope this understanding of the humans and their hearts as a part of nature that I think is part of his tao gives me hope for the result of his enlightenment.
      But the bigger part of what I wish for that is because of how we saw CM grow through this story. Every thing he learned, every emotion he felt, every bond he formed, every time he cried or smiled or laughed, every wish of the people of the past that worried that CM would be alone or lost or hopeless once they wouldn’t be by his side anymore and that helped him become who he is as much as the people of the present did. All of these things was what made me feel the most love which reading this story, and it would break my heart if they couldn’t be part of CM’s future.
      It’s why I hope CM’s enlightenment won’t become a sacrifice of everything that he built for himself and everything other people gave to him in return for the power to kill Cheonma or something of the sort, but simply just one more step of his path as a human.

      Of course all of that are just my personal wishes. I also wonder if his enlightenment could be linked to the act of blooming, of creating life, which was mentioned toward the very start of the novel (and the manhwa) to be the true meaning of Hwasan’s martial art, by CM himself. It was such an interesting bit that I’m really surprised it’s not talked more about, although it’s true it was never brought up again since then.

      Uh, anyway… Thanks for reading me and thank you again for your own comments, they was very VERY interesting to read for me!

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Asya Avatar
        Asya

        Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply! This was a very interesting read for me as well! It seems I can’t stop ranting since I love well-connected spiritual flavored novels, but this one is pretty long as well.

        To be honest, I had not considered the possibility of Cheong Myeong’s enlightenment costing him his relationships. But you are right, seeing the state of the Dalai Lama, if he reaches that inhuman state, it would be very disheartening for him not to be able to properly communicate with the people around him. 

        Also, thank you for reminding me of the hints they dropped regarding the Tao and the ‘act of blooming’. I had totally missed connecting those together and approached everything in a Buddhist way! After reading your comment, I felt that it is more than possible for Cheong Myeong to attain a different type of enlightenment. Thank you very much for bringing up ch 1209! That made me very happy because if you read ch 1209 and 1353 back to back, you can see that the two are very connected.

        Apart from that, I see that the author is being as loyal as possible to the actual spiritual teachings of both Buddhism and Taoism. That also makes me hopeful, like you, that Cheong Myeong can reach a different summit.

        In Mahayana Buddhism (mainland China), their end goal is to enter the Pure Land of Amitabha Buddha and surpass all suffering. Meanwhile, in Tibetan Vajrayāna, realization over the course of Three Asankhya Kalpas is believed (in the Dalai Lama lineage). In relation to the novel, when we look at the ‘golden shimmer’ escaping the young Dalai Lama’s hands, we see that he is able to push back Cheong Myeong’s inner demons (delusions, as the Dalai Lama refers to them), despite having no martial arts. Interestingly, there are some historical anecdotes about the 5th Dalai Lama, who supposedly pushed away nefarious spirits with his energy. So, looking at these clues, I will believe that the author is staying as loyal to the real schools of thought as possible. This would make it possible for Cheong Myeong to achieve a different state of liberation. 

        Because in Taoism, the end goal becomes somewhat different than Buddhism, and the Tao itself is an infinite ‘way/path’. The following is from the literal translation of Tao Te Ching’s opening verse.

        The Dao (The Way) that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Dao.

        The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name.

        In a way, at least in my understanding, it is not that Tao is unnamed and inexplicable only because it is sacred and complex, but also because everyone’s path is different, and each person can explain the same concept in a different way. Does that make sense? I feel like how you approach life itself is your own Way. And as Panchen Lama says, “To comprehend it is to realize it. Then, wouldn’t you, too, be a Buddha? “ Whatever way you word your realizations, comprehending the truths can lead you to enlightenment. Cheong Myeong’s seemingly brash actions seem immature to others, but it is his own style of self-expression.

        As you mentioned, if I were to tie the ‘act of blooming’ to the meaning of the Tao, and how many times they spoke about being the roots, being the soil, etc., it is interesting how the author focused on the life cycle of the plum trees. A cycle is a continuation, life and death, Yin-Yang, as well as nature. The entire analogy centered around Hwasan perfectly encapsulates the teachings of Taoism. From the earliest chapters, we saw how much Cheong Myeong spoke about the ‘will and spirit’ of Mount Hua. Perhaps, it is how he will reach an enlightenment unique to himself. 

        Also, thinking of duality reminded me of your original comment. Think about it, there seemingly is a duality between Cheong Myeong (good, virtue, hero) and Jang Ilso (evil, non-virtue, antihero). Not in an interpersonal or emotionally connected way, but by existing at the same time (as you explained really well in your comment).

        Taiji refers to the unity and duality of nature, and as we see in ch 1353, Cheong Myeong muses about these exact problems, reaching a point where he can discover his own understanding of the Tao. In that sense, could Jang Ilso be the duality needed in his life, a source of understanding or driving force in some sense? Or perhaps a cyclic balance? The following is from the 5th verse of the Tao Te Ching, talking about the coexistence of good and evil, how both are within the cycle, as well as how one is not above the other. 

        Heaven and Earth are impartial; they treat all of creation as straw dogs.

        The Master doesn’t take sides; she treats everyone like a straw dog.

        Just an interesting thought, but, while both good and evil are within the cycle, there is a verse like the following, which feels like a complete slap in the face of the Just Sects and Beop Jong. In ch 1578 and 1579, if you look at how Jang Ilso views Beop Jong, and how they talk before the war, it feels as if Jang Ilso understands true virtue more than the Abbot himself, though he rejects it.

        When Great Tao declines, virtue of humanity and righteousness shall arise.

        When knowledge and intelligence appear, great hypocrisy shall arise. (verse 18)

        The second part mocks Beop Jong and Gupailbang so well. The knowledge and intelligence (better explained as strategic cleverness, cunning) appear, knowledge of the supreme truths is disregarded, and people try to deceive both themselves and others. 

        The first part addresses the Just Sects and the current dilemma concerning Cheonumeang really well. When they don’t even understand themselves, or their collective will and spirit, righteousness arises. When natural harmony is lost, people, both inside and outside the Alliance, start trying to invent or compare ‘virtue’. It is not that having virtue is bad; rather, the forced act of virtue is a sign of decay (like in the Just Sects’ case). Doubting the act of goodwill is proof that one has lost one’s way (like the Alliance). I had seen comments about how the author is unrealistically portraying Cheong Myeong’s inner demons because they couldn’t have saved Diancang, and it is unrealistic for him to blame himself, but I completely disagree. I think it perfectly explains how much he lost his way, and how he does not understand the real ‘spirit’ of the Alliance he named himself. It’s not simply because of what Jang Ilso said, or because they failed to save Diancang, it is the result of the entire Alliance losing its way. In the past, he saw the will of Hwasan in his Sahyeong and followed him. In this life, he saw the will of the Alliance in Baek Cheon and followed him. Now that he is alone, it is time for him to decide on his path.

        When one loves oneself and understands the natural cycles, one embodies the Tao. Virtue is spontaneous and effortless when one is “in Tao,” but the universe is non-judgmental and impartial (unlike most other religions, where ‘sins’ are forbidden and judged by divine law). In that sense, Jang Ilso is not one with the Tao (duh, obviously), but perhaps Cheong Myeong is supposed to comprehend something by realizing these truths?

        Liked by 3 people

    3. Chu Avatar
      Chu

      I don’t know as much about spiritual stories as you (although there are some mangas I love that have a feeling I would call spiritual? mostly Mushishi and NatsuYuu, but it’s very different XD), and it makes your rants very interesting for me to read because I don’t have this knowledge so you sharing it with us makes me feel like I am now able to see this story in a way I wasn’t able to before! It’s a great feeling to gain perspective like that, so I really appreciate everything you’re sharing! (I have reread your answer to my comment several times to not miss anything XD)

      His enlightenment was one of the things that scare me the most since I realized it was coming. Way more than Jang Ilso or Cheonja-ma. So I have many thoughts to try and make it less scary to me. Including possibly just not reaching for the enlightenment, but first it’s really unlikely like CM will need anything he can on his side to go against Cheonja-ma, and it’s really unlikely too that an enlightenment can just be rejected. Maybe doing so would kill him, or make him fall in a state similar to Cheonja-ma, or worse!
      Which, talking about Cheonja-ma, I am so curious what kind of person he was before becoming Cheonja-ma. Did he mean to become what he is? Was it an accident? Was he just another human being? A martial artist, probably? Is he just an exemple of enlightenment going wrong, or did he long ago already try to become Cheonma? How many life has he lived? How many feelings can he still feel? Does he wish to continue existing or is he unable to die, always being brought back? (would CM be able to die or would he be brought back?) Did hE have people he love? Did he lose people? Is he still able to care but choose not to, or did he lose the ability itself? Cheonja-ma is just many “????” to me and it makes him really interesting. Why does he want to become Cheonma? Does he even want to or is it just the only path left for him? What does the world look like from his eyes? What did it used to look like long ago when he first lived? As you can see I have QUESTIONS about him.

      There are period of time when I think everyday about the fact that CM did mention in his thoughts that he could make other flowers bloom if he wanted to but just doesn’t because he doesn’t see the point. He is from Hwasan so why would he make other flowers bloom, indeed. Still, it makes me wonder what it would looks like. Could he make just any kind of flower bloom? Would it have to be flower from tree, as many of his martial arts (or at least the metaphors based on them) are based around not only the flower part of the plum tree but the whole of it? Could he make flowers that don’t cut, from qi and not just sword qi? Or maybe a sword qi so soft it wouldn’t cut? I am not sure, but it’s interesting. Could he make flowers last longer if he wanted? Would poisonous flowers also be poisonous, or the replication of his qi would not be able to go that far? Could he make them more than replication, knowing that the martial art isn’t about creating plum blossom but the act of blooming? Is it ever possible to reach a realm where it would be true, living flowers that bloom?
      I sometime forget that the martial arts from taoist sects are just a conduct to reach Tao, so the point of them isn’t to be the strongest but to reach enlightenment by using them as a catalyst. Which I’m not sure how interested CM is by that, as the reason he is training so seriously is to protect Hwasan and so generally just be strong, and not become an Immortal which I don’t think he ever desired, except maybe just to laugh at CMun and CJin because “hey, the one that reached Tao is me!” when he was young, I don’t think the immortality or having a great understanding of Tao really interested him.
      That does remind me though, of something a friend told me, that the way to reach the Tao is not by pursuing it, and that the act of seeking the Tao won’t make one understand it. In that way CM sure has an advantage, for how little he want it.

      Thank you for mentioning chapter 1353! I have gone to reread it, and indeed I see what you mean! The “‘But… If humans are part of nature, then human will is also the will of nature. Why then reject that will as artificial? Actions driven by will and those without. Even animals have will in their actions…’” thought really follow on chapter 1209’s conversation!

      I had no idea Dalai Lama pushing back CM’s inner demon was a reference to an old story like that one! It’s really cool for me to learn it because Dalai Lama is my favorite character from the underrated ones and just generally one of my favorite, but I have to admit I didn’t look up his roots a lot outside of the story, except to know that the current Dalai Lama is the 14th and looking at many pictures of Potala Palace because this place is so beautiful!! I trust Biga gives a lot more thoughts in this story than anyone give them credit for, so it always makes me happy to see someone noticing that kind of things and sharing them with us! Now I feel like I know a lot more about my favorite story 😀

      The Dao (The Way) that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Dao.
      The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name.
      I think this is what the friend I talked about earlier mentioned, which is why made me think that by not being trying to actively realize the Tao doesn’t make CM necessarily farther from it than other people. After, I have no idea if this interpretation is correct. X)

      “In a way, at least in my understanding, it is not that Tao is unnamed and inexplicable only because it is sacred and complex, but also because everyone’s path is different, and each person can explain the same concept in a different way. Does that make sense?”
      It makes sense! It makes a lot of sense! One doesn’t have to understand the Tao to know what path to follow, but to know the path they follow to understand oneself, realize their self, and learning about the world through themself as they are part of it and the understandings they have attained which following their path will be their Tao! The longer they continue on their path, the more understandings they reach, the more their Tao grow! Maybe. It’s how I interprete it.

      I also find it really interesting how the aspect of Tao that Hwasan’s martial arts focus on is the cycle of life! I’m not sure anyone else had this realization except CM in this generation and the previous one, but I wonder if it might change in the future. I also wonder, if CM had an enlightenment centred around that, what kind of ability would he get? We already know that (usually) his qi is perfectly pure and so close to nature, and that it is very amazing at giving “life” back to him by healing him and generally making him stronger, so what would such a qi linked with an enlightenment linked to the cycle of life and the act of blooming give? Just a thought. That I have from time to time. Every other day.

      Not to steal a Merlin quote, but to me JI and CM are like both side of a coin. They are linked in who they are and the way they feel about each other and yet they will never be on the same side, they will never represent the same things, for all of the similarities, they are each other’s opposite. It’s a relationship where only one of them can come out from, and if there ever was a possibility for coexistence, I can only have imagine it to be temporary, as JI would not change himself to be acceptable to another standards (like ISB so willingly did, I love you ISB/p) and CM would never accept someone that will cause such terrible tragedies around him as uncaringly and willingly as JI does. Yet when one of them come out from this after killing the other, I don’t think either of them would be fine. You can destroy a side of a coin without affecting the other side. Which there are part of each other they will never accept, there is a part of them where they met, understand, and even trust. The middle of the coin, in a way. And it’s why to destroy the other feel like it would inevitably destroy part of themself as well. Such an unique, spectacular relationship to witness, really. And it’s all getting closer to the end. If I’m right and JI is going to die, I’m going to miss him. Because which I (partially) despise (can’t ever write the word “hate”, it would be a clear lie) his guts and think it couldn’t be better for the world than to be without him, I also do love him as a character. I miss HGM too, although I never actually despised him. They both are so magnificiently written. This story won’t be the same without them (though maybe I’m putting the cart before the horse by mourning someone that didn’t even get killed yet), though I’m sure the marks they have left will be felt through the story until its very end.

      I really like this side of the story where the world they live in is not about deserving, and people are not bad or good, right or wrong, by nature but by the choice they make. I hate the word “redemption” as it isn’t a concept I believe in, because the bad things you did can’t be erased, and the good things you do in the present won’t change the past, but I love the concept of still doing these good things anyway, because it’s not about being good to balance the wrongs of the past, but to simply be good to be good, to care for the sake of caring, because in the past you might have made wrong choices, bad actions, mistakes, but you learned from them and you care to do better, to change yourself where you need to. It’s not redemption to me, it’s growing, learning, and sometime moving on. The bad that was done was done, and if you can have a chance to be good in the future, then cherish it. It’s why I don’t want several characters that are viewed as “bad” to die or suffer, because I believe they do care and can learn better, and can become a force for the good in their world. To forget what they did wrong would not be correct, but to always only remind of the mistakes and bad acts like it’s the only things they are and that can define them feel so wrong. I so adore that in this story I can feel the potential for growth from the people that wasn’t always in the right, that I can feel they do care and can learn to care more. Anyway, just one more random rant about my feelings from me. I hope this comment thing doesn’t have a word limit!?

      (short mention but about CM’s enlightenment, which it could be centered around Hwasan’s will, I hope it will be more about Cheonumaeng too, because I love Cheonumaeng so, so much. Which in a way, Hwasan (and TB and the war) made CM, CM (and many other important people) made Cheonumaeng, shaped it, and gave it a will. And which yes, Cheonumaeng isn’t at its best right now, it’s still has so much potential for growth! Just like CM. And what I see the most from Cheonumaeng is CM’s ability to accept others. To open himself or to be willing to reach out or to care for more people and to accept them for who they are and want them that way. To me it’s a very important part of his path and why Cheonumaeng matters so much to me. okay the mention ended up not being short, kind of saw it coming but well)

      “I had seen comments about how the author is unrealistically portraying Cheong Myeong’s inner demons because they couldn’t have saved Diancang, and it is unrealistic for him to blame himself, but I completely disagree.”
      I also completely disagree, for some more reasons because one, CM does not have realistic expectation for himself to start with (nor does he values himself like he does anything else) and second so start with guilt was never a feeling meant to be understand with cold logic, but with emotions and the act of caring for others. It’s what create guilt, not “the way things are supposed to be”. And it’s perfectly understandable that CM have unrealistic expectations for himself considering he has always been the strongest, he is used to responsabilities of having to protect others from the war, he learned to care more and more about others in this life and to understand other people’s pain, and he is so used to the feeling of losing conssumed by the feeling of losing things that he doesn’t want wish for anyone else to go through it. Diancang and the other sects that suffered through this story did in no way deserve it, no matter what is said about the bad choices they made. Doing bad things do not means deserving such fate, such pain, such loss, and I don’t understand how it could ever be rationalized otherwise. It makes so much sense to me that CM would feel for people that go through such things, considering his own experience, and with his so great and yet still growing sense of responsabilities, it’s perfectly understandable he would feel responsible about the situation, no matter if it’s the true of the matter or not. How can it be hard to understand that CM simply care? We saw him grow into this feeling, like we saw this feeling frow into him. With every hand he offered to another person, any support he gave to another, any life he saved or better path he helped them get on. All of these time he opened himself a bit more to caring about others, even though he still struggles so much to letting other care about him.

      I don’t know how far JI was from Tao in the past, as which he did not fully understand himself (remembering a talk he had with HGM when saying even he didn’t know himself fully and if someone came to manage to do that they are the one that would know his weakness and be able to kill him (or something, I don’t fully remember)), he does accept himself and does follow his own path. I don’t think Tao is not necesseraily good or bad, and if the humans are part of the world too and the human heart can be part of tao, then I don’t think JI was the antithesis of Tao in the past or something like that. It’s different now though, since he lost himself, since he lost his path, because of Cheonja-ma coming back and him giving up on his own will, forsaking the path he built all that time. If JI ever had anything like a Tao, I believe he now thoroughly rejected it. Perhaps it will be his undoing? CM at least, which lost, is still trying to find his path. JI, him, fully gave up.

      Disclaimer: All of that are my own interpretations and everyone is free to disagree with them! I am not Biga and do not have the autority to says what is going on through one of their character’s head!

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Asya Avatar
        Asya

        Omg, I’m sorry, I missed your last comment! Even tho I am a bit late to reply, I’m glad to read that you enjoyed reading my rants because even looking at their lengths, I thought that people would think “Omg, why is this person yapping so much?” haha. But as Blaise Pascal said, “I am sorry for the length of my letter, but I had not the time to write a short one.” I just feel that the spiritual teachings of Taoism and Buddhism are so deep, and I don’t have the virtue to understand them in depth to be able to structure more concise answers in relation to the novel.

        I’m happy you brought up Cheonma, because I also had a lot of questions about him — but to be honest, I’m kind of convinced of what kind of being he is after these chapters, though I might be wrong. If you remember, Cheonsal had said something along the lines of “When Cheonma descends, the Central Plains will be drowned in bloodshed,” referring to their Cult’s ancient prophecy. He went on to speculate whether the bloodshed precedes his descent or results from it.

        Adding to that, the Dalai Lama corrected Cheong Myeong in a way, referring to him as “The Demon Child of Heaven”. Looking at these clues, there are a few parallels we can draw between cosmic laws and Cheonma’s descent.

        In esoteric Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna Buddhism, wrathful deities appear terrifying and violent, but they serve the Dharma by cutting through delusion. There are also myths about the five celestial beasts appearing at the birth or coronation of rulers believed to be favored by Heaven. And similarly, signs like natural disasters were often interpreted as Heaven withdrawing its Mandate from kings.

        Historically, if such disasters occurred, commoners had a moral right to rebel, believing the ruler had lost the Mandate of Heaven. Dynasties like the Han and Ming were founded by commoners, but were seen as legitimate because they were believed to have inherited this mandate — becoming rightful rulers of All Under Heaven (天下).

        This isn’t only a Taoist or Confucian belief. A parallel can be found in Buddhist cosmology: kala vipatti. Vipatti refers to “failure, adversity, unfortunate conditions,” while sampatti refers to “success, prosperity, fortunate conditions”. There are four conditions of sufficiency (sampatti), as well as four conditions of deficiency (vipatti). 

        In Theravada teachings, kala vipatti refers to adverse conditions that are hard to change, often influenced by the actions of ineffective and malevolent leaders. Real-life examples can be wars, famine, and the price of grain. If we were to enlarge it to fit cosmic beliefs, we could also say: when collective karma reaches a tipping point, a kalpa ends — usually through catastrophic renewal. Theravāda does not officially recognize collective or ancestral karma in the Mahāyāna sense, but it acknowledges that: Generational decline (vipatti) may be explained by shared actions (like too many rebellions, wars, and immoral actions), not by any deterministic law. It is important to note that this balance-dependent reset is different from the kala vipatti. A little below, you will understand why I even mentioned the notion of kala vipatti.

        Given these teachings, I think Cheonma is not merely a character but a personification of generational reset — the descent of cosmic retribution. I think the key lies in Cheonsal’s comment. The prophecy is reversed: Cheonma doesn’t come to cause bloodshed; rather, bloodshed and karmic imbalance summon him — as Heaven responds to collective karma disrupting the balance between Heaven and Earth. 

        In Buddhism, Mara is not a “demon” in the Abrahamic sense, but a symbol of human delusion and resistance to enlightenment. Though stories depict him tempting the Buddha, he is not evil in a moral sense, but rather the personification of obstruction.

        In the novel, everyone except Cheong Myeong fears Cheonma — but they don’t hate him. Cheong Myeong reflects that he found this reaction strange. The others, in turn, found him strange. In the end, why would a human hate a famine or a flood? They just saw Cheonma as a natural disaster of sorts, something insurmountable. There’s a subtle but critical distinction there — and I think this is one of the things that sets Cheong Myeong apart. Even Jang Ilso, just looking at the aftermath, loses his conviction. It fits the Buddhist teachings since Mara is supposed to test one’s conviction.

        Another clue that made me think Cheonma is a cosmic personification was the 100-year reincarnation timeline. I always wondered: Why 100 years? Well, there are a lot of reincarnation and transmigration stories nowadays, but if we were to analyze this one differently due to its rich storybuilding, we could make some educated guesses as to why. If we treat it with symbolic intent, the number 100 appears frequently in Taoism and Buddhism: e.g., the Hundred Kinds of Beings (百類) in Buddhist cosmology, or The Hundred Character Tablet of Lu Dongbin in Taoist alchemical texts (which is about the workings of the Tao).

        Cheong Myeong reincarnates after 100 years — but I believe adding 8 more years (making 108) is when Cheonma truly awakens. Here’s why:

        One gives birth to two, two gives birth to three,
        Three gives birth to the ten thousand.
        One hundred and eight counts make one cycle,
        Constant turning creates all things. (Tao Te Ching, verse 42)

        Here, ‘one’ represents the Tao, ‘two’ represents Yin-Yang, ‘three’ represents the interaction of Yin and Yang (birth of qi, life force). Qi gives breath to ten thousand, ten thousand here representing all of creation. 108 is treated as one ‘full cycle.’

        The number 108 appears across multiple systems — Hinduism, Buddhism, astrology, martial arts, and more. It’s treated as the number of worldly delusions or sins in Buddhism, and thus, the number of beads on a mala. In Taoism, it represents one full cycle. If Cheonma begins his real descent (complete awakening) after 108 years, it would reinforce the idea that he’s not human, but the incarnation of Mara.

        From a fictional standpoint, it could be hypothesized that Cheonma himself succumbed to his inner demons and became a tool for the setting of the balance due to his inhuman state, and he might have very well killed even those he held dear at some point. In that sense, he might be a complex character who has a non-functioning side (only to serve the balance, emotionless) and a humane side (where he speaks to Cheong Myeong before his death about how he acknowledges his blade). Note here that not everyone who experiences inner demons becomes like this, most die or get crippled. Why Cheong Myeong and Cheonma might be different, I have no idea. Perhaps the clash of the moment of supreme enlightenment and becoming one with one’s inner demons? Picking the evil side in some sense, but in the end, there is no distinction between good and evil in Taoism. Hence, what they become in the end is not good or evil. Rather, a Saint of Heaven or a Mara of Hell. That is what I believe. The same possibility might be open for Cheong Myeong’s current state as well; hence, the Dalai Lama’s ‘sorrow’.

        That’s why Cheong Myeong’s reaction matters. He hates Cheonma — but isn’t afraid of him. Others fear him — but don’t hate him. This dichotomy is meaningful.

        Another theory I have is that Cheong Myeong might be “The Upright Star.” According to the Purple Forbidden Enclosure’s 14 Major Stars, the Upright Star represents judgment, moral conflict — a being caught between righteousness and despair. Meanwhile, Cheonma aligns with “The Ruinous Star” — chaos, betrayal, destruction, and the end of cycles. The appearance of these stars in one’s chart isn’t rare by itself, but rare configurations occur only every few centuries. Such alignments are linked to the birth of change-bringing mortals: spiritual teachers, tyrants, saviors, disasters, dynastic founders, etc. I don’t take this theory too literally while looking at the hints in the novel, but I think a similar notion could be possible with how Cheong Myeong and Cheonma are linked and get incarnated at around the same time.

        If Cheong Myeong and Cheonma’s connection stems from an earlier alignment of stars, Cheong Myeong might even have led earlier lives he might remember if he reached enlightenment. Otherwise, if their stars were aligned on the day they died 100 years ago, they might keep repeating the same cycle until it is broken. Then, Cheong Myeong’s fear of Cheonma’s constant return makes sense — hence why he asks the Dalai Lama how to break this cycle completely. There, the originating point of why they became connected gains importance, but we are yet to see what that originating point may be. Could it be as simple as dying to one another’s blades?

        Thanks a lot for pointing it out from another perspective, indeed, Cheong Myeong not having the aspiration to ‘reach’ somewhere in Taoism, aligns more with the natural state of things. Others like Hyung Joon, Baek Cheon, or the Un-generation strive to reach somewhere to become something, a nourishment for the next generation, a protector, a worthy leader, etc.

        Their thoughts follow a chain of cause and effect, an essentially human way of thinking. “I lost my martial arts, but there has to be something for me to do..” (Baek Cheon) “If only I were more steadfast, I could’ve led the kids better.” (Hyung Joon). Unlike them, Cheong Myeong has a rather straightforward way of thinking. “Even if you lose a limb, or are not in the perfect state, what must be done must be done.” Obviously, it is important to consider this type of thinking in the larger context. Then, Cheong Myeong’s way of thinking becomes more aligned with pursuing Tao since he doesn’t actively seek it.

        One who seeks knowledge learns something new every day. One who seeks the Tao unlearns something new every day. Less and less remains until you arrive at non-action. When you arrive at non-action, nothing will be left undone. Mastery of the world is achieved by letting things take their natural course. You can not master the world by changing the natural way. (Tao Te Ching, verse 48)

        Unpacking this verse is a bit harder. When we seek knowledge, we learn something new. One who seeks Tao has to unlearn something the more he nears his goal. Because Tao cannot be explained by mortal laws or knowledge. So, by breaking out of the restraints of the mind, letting go of attachments and prior knowledge, we get closer to Tao. As we let go of more, less remains, until we reach the non-action (wúwéi 無為). Wuwei is the central Taoist idea of effortless action or non-forcing (“become like water,” that phrase simply refers to this idea). When you arrive at non-action, nothing will be left undone. It is the supreme way of doing everything minimally, but perfectly sufficiently. Just like how seasons change, our actions resemble the minimal yet sufficiently operating nature. Non-action is not doing nothing, but rather not forcing anything. Everything has its course.

        I would say that Cheong Myeong is at the start of this journey. I feel like this is strengthened by what he says in ch 1865. I don’t want to give any spoilers, so I will just say that if you read the portion just before where he says ‘…Who cares.’ in ch 1865, you will understand what I mean.

        And speaking of knowledge, and also your musing about whether Cheong Myeong could embody the full cycle of the act of blooming, I think we can be hopeful of what he can achieve with the Heavenly Violet Divine Arts. It was said that it was the ultimate technique of Hwasan, and it is not only so for this novel. In many fictional stories, this supreme art appears as an art that is solely passed down to the Sect Leaders of Hwasan. When we saw Cheong Myeong learning it (in the earlier chapters), he had tried to force a different type of inner energy circulation path in order to harmonize it with his immortal energy. I don’t quite remember the chapter clearly, but I remember him saying he was still not able to unleash its ultimate form, and his body had gone through many injuries while he tried to reach a compatible state. I don’t know if the Heavenly Violet Divine Arts will be similar to what I’ve seen of it before. But as far as I know, it also appears in The Smiling, Proud Wanderer by Jin Yong as a powerful internal energy arts. The “Purple Mist” (紫霞) appears at sunrise, the moment when Yin transforms into Yang — making this technique one of harmonic transition.

        Purple Energy Comes from the East — refers to auspicious energy seen rising from the east regarding the birth of the Tao Te Ching. It is considered a propitious omen of the coming of an emperor, sage, or treasure. The legend behind it is very fascinating. To sum it up, it speaks of Laozi’s arrival in the Eastern Zhou Dynasty (circa 770-256 BCE), as predicted by the famous astronomer Yinxi. He accepts Yinxi’s request to teach him after he sees that Yinxi is very honest about his inner cultivation. After three months, he is ready to move forward with his journey. Yinxi requests him to write some teachings so he can continue his learning even if they never meet again. Accepting it, Laozi writes Tao Te Ching. 

        This legend presumably inspired the imagery behind Zixia Divine Art, representing heavenly power descending into a cultivator through spiritual alignment with the cosmos. That is why it is also described that if one practices it to its final form, a mirage-like violet dawn appears behind their form.

        In other words, if the author not only took its name but also its nature as it is, it is supposed to represent a balance. This martial arts method had been left alone since forever. I believe that if Cheong Myeong manages to balance this technique through his enlightenment and is able to use it with his immortal energy, he can embody the full cycle, not only flowers. And if you tie in Cheong Myeong’s state with the legend behind Zixia Divine Arts, I feel like it is supposed to symbolize the birth of a sage: the Sword Saint. In that regard, it feels like not only is it the second coming of the Heavenly Demon of Hell, but also the Sage of Heaven. I feel like at that moment, they would be equally matched as hero and anti-hero. I remember that dear Ellie had explained how the author had written the hero and anti-hero terms in a certain way, and it really stuck out to me. It feels like Cheong Myeong, while he is a mortal, has Jang Ilso as his heaven-sent rival, and after he becomes immortal, the anti-hero becomes Cheonma. I really don’t think the author throws out such phrases taken from parts of legends or spiritual teachings carelessly. If it really ties in like this, I feel it would make a lot of sense. 

        This is where the kala vipatti and cosmic reset that I spoke about come into play again for me, and tie everything together.

        The kala vipatti arc, in some sense, is the bloodshed caused by Jang Ilso, who would be the tyrant leader that is said to cause the kala vipatti in Buddhist Theravada teachings. Subsequently, the bloodshed caused due to the kala vipatti ends up requiring a generational cosmic reset (in Taoist teachings, this could be explained as energy imbalance between Heaven and Earth), which summons Cheonma. Cheong Myeong takes part in both arcs once as a mortal and once as an immortal. That is my view on how the novel timeline would be divided if we were to analyze it in spiritual terms. 

        Of course, these are all my theories that rely heavily on the spiritual meaning behind what the author has thrown at us so far. I’m really excited to see how everything will play out though. And definitely, although everyone is waiting for his death, I also cannot say that I ‘hate’ Jang Ilso. A part of me wants him to stay alive. As you said, not all bad characters should be placed into a story to have redemption arcs, or otherwise get killed. It just feels natural that weeding out all the ‘bad’ characters is impossible, just as it is in real life. Yet, I find it somehow unlikely considering Cheong Myeong and Jang Ilso’s not-so-subtle declarations of “We cannot exist under the same sky.” I feel that it would be possible only if Cheong Myeong went through a mindset change. Perhaps, the Dalai Lama’s intent was this from the start? It is not that he leaves him alive or kills him, but the mindset that requires Cheong Myeong to be able to spare Jang Ilso is what will cause his growth. This came to my mind while reading ch 1865.

        Lastly, if you enjoyed a bit of background on the 5th Dalai Lama, or the Great Fifth, I suggest you look up his stories, all so fascinating.

        The 5th Dalai Lama (1617–1682) was the person who was renowned for unifying Tibet with Mongolian military backing in 1642. He was integral in the creation of a theocratic government led by the Dalai Lamas, which lasted until 1959. He was the one to establish the Potala Palace (though its construction continued even in the time of the 6th Dalai Lama), which means “pure land” or “high heavenly realm.” His own writings, as well as his later order to build the Potala Palace, caused him to be referred to as an incarnation of Avalokiteśvara. If I’m not wrong, I had read somewhere that he was also the one to ordain the lineage of the Panchen Lamas as sacred, causing them to be teachers and identifiers of the Dalai Lama’s later incarnations. Before him, Panchen was a title of sorts, rather than a lineage. (I couldn’t really fact-check the part about Panchen Lamas, so I might be remembering wrong)

        Interestingly, I wonder if the author drew some inspiration from the 7th Dalai Lama for the Dalai Lama spoken of in the novel. He was identified and brought to Tibet from the Central Plains, like in the novel. He was ordained at the age of 12 and was born in the western stretch of the Sichuan Province. To be honest, those are the only similarities, but I find it interesting nevertheless that there is a similarity in the novel with how some Potala Palace monks and Panchen Lama travel to the Central Plains to find the Dalai Lama, who is also written as a child. Also, in the novel, they only come across one another on their return journey, so we don’t know where the Dalai Lama was found by the monks; it might as well have been the Sichuan Province.

        Well, this was another hella long rant, but I hope you enjoy reading it haha.

        Liked by 3 people

    4. Chu Avatar
      Chu

      No worry about you having been late to answer to my reply, I’m even later to sending my answer!
      I’m going to ask now before I forget, but would you like to talk on discord (otherwise I have tumblr and steam, or I can give you my secondary email, discord is simply the one I am the most active on) so we can messages each other about ROTMHS more easily? I’m kind of feeling guilty for how much space we are taking on this page, considering it’s not possible to make the comments not appear😅😂(from what I know)
      It makes me happy to have read your reply to my messages, and that you are sharing your theories with me! I enjoy reading them, and I learn a lot which doing so! (you explain things well) ^^

      “Cheonma doesn’t come to cause bloodshed; rather, bloodshed and karmic imbalance summon him”
      That’s actually something I have theorized before, especially because of Cheonma’s first pov when he just awoke which a terribly bloody and hellish battlefield was happening elsewhere.

      Hoewever what I’m confused about is the 100-year reincarnation timeline you mentioned. Which CM did reincarnate after approximately a hundred years, Dalai Lama did mention that it was not the first time Cheonja-ma was reborn since CM killed him I think? And it makes sense to me, because if bloodshed wake him, then even if the murim as been in a peaceful time for the last century, there is no reason for that to have been the same for the secular world, and armies probably still left to wars, and massacres still happened.
      If Cheonja-ma appears when the world is covered by blood, then except if the world is covered by blood exactly every hundred year and not before or after, the 100-year reincarnation timeline would not makes sense. Not in this context.

      However I do think it could make sense, but then “Cheonma doesn’t come to cause bloodshed; rather, bloodshed and karmic imbalance summon him” would likely be incorrect and it is indeed Cheonja-ma that cause the bloodshed.
      Though in that case I wonder what Dalai Lama meant when he mentioned the other times Cheonja-ma apparently woke up in the last centuries. And why then was no carnage caused? Did Cheonja-ma actually only reincarnate but died without getting their memories back? Did they for some reason get them back but did not act the same way as the one we except him to and there was no massacres? What does it mean?
      Maybe Cheonma can reincarnate several time without a hundred years, but they will only wake up every hundred year, which could match your theory? In that case though the question would be, how long ago did Cheonma wake/remember before they was killed by CM? Does they remember 100 years after they was killed, or 100 years after the previous time they remembered? Did they never had a life that lasted more than 100 years?

      And which your explanation can give meaning to what Cheonma or Cheonja-ma is, what do you think the difference would be between the both? What would make Cheonja-ma into Cheonma, and is the meaning of Cheonma existence’s different than the one of Cheonja-ma? It seems so, like Cheonja-ma’s goal at least appear to be to become Cheonma, but Cheonma’s goal wouldn’t be to become Cheonma.
      So what would Cheonma’s goal be? For the world to be conquered by the demons? What does that even means? For all light to be extinguished? All life? Maybe, maybe not.
      And what would it take for Cheonja-ma to become Cheonma? Before CM killed him, they said just one more day would have been enough for them to have been worthy of the Cheonma’s title. What could that one day have changed that it would make such a difference?

      And if Cheonma is a cosmic representation and not in any way a human being, then does they even reincarnate a human being or does they just poof into existence?
      At least the Demonic Cult seems to think that they reincarnate as a human before waking up, but if they are correct, how does they act before waking up? Does they act like a human? Are they empty like a doll? Can people tell that there is something wrong with them even when they aren’t awake?
      Or maybe they incarnate in the body of someone that was indeed human, but that is an entity different from them and it’s everytime a different human that they possess? In that case would this human’s ego/soul disappear in the process?
      Or what if Cheonja-ma was originally human? What if they reincarnate as a human because it is what they are, even though his being is so changed that other people cannot recognize them as one anymore? Like how CM did not recognize Dalai Lama as a human but Dalai Lama called himself a human being?
      Would Cheonja-ma being a human mean that they cannot be a cosmic representation, or is it possible to be both? Did he perhaps become a cosmic representation because of the cultivation path they followed and the enlightenments they reached? Or is it a punishment for some sins they would have commited in the past?
      Does Cheonma really want the things they are trying to accomplish, or is it like a computer following its program? If they wished to, is it possible for them to not follow the path to becoming Cheonma? Or is it that, even if they had feelings, they do not have the free will to act upon them?

      “That’s why Cheong Myeong’s reaction matters. He hates Cheonma — but isn’t afraid of him. Others fear him — but don’t hate him. This dichotomy is meaningful.”
      The thing about that is, CM hated Cheonma but didn’t fear them as a disaster, but now CM doesn’t hate Cheonma but fears him as a disaster. Things changed. What could it means for how CM’s future interactions with Cheonja-ma will be like? Will CM go back to hating them, or will this new mindset persist even after he decided to acknowledge who he was in the past more openly?

      Which I saw many people agree about CM and Cheonja-ma having a higher connection, I admit I don’t see it this way myself. Which they have a connection for the past they share and the way they was each other’s end, I don’t believe it means their beings are linked in a higher way.
      I know I might have to take it back depending on what Biga writes in the future, but at least for now I don’t think CM coming back to life is linked to Cheonja-ma’s own reincarnation, and that the answer to why CM’s cycle started lies inside himself (and perhaps Hwasan) and not Cheonja-ma, Heaven, or Fate.
      I have still yet to find someone that sees it this way too though! XD

      I have gone to reread chapter 1865, and I agree part of it seems to refere to the non-action, or going with the flow (something that was refered to a lot since the start of the story) and doing one’s own part without feeling the need to give it some greater meaning.
      I also think however, that things like becoming a nourishment for the younger generations is another part of going with the flow and doing one’s own part, and that it’s not something that only HJ and the Un generation are doing but CM himself too. Actually, CM seems to have tried to take every part of himself that he can to make as something to teach to his descendants, for his and Hwasan’s will to be inherited as much as possible, as it is mean to be. I believe it is part of Hwasan’s Tao that CM and HJ inherited, and they both are doing their part for they younger ones to inherite it too. It’s something truly beautiful to me.

      Thank you for mentioning the Heavenly Violet Divine Arts!! Seeing the results of the version that CM created to fit his own cultivation base is something I am really looking forward to! From what I remember, he wasn’t trying to get it to fit his immortal qi, but his pure qi that he obtained from following the Equilibrium of Six cultivation technique, which is the technique that can give one the purest qi possible, so if he was to switch to the original Heavenly Violet Divine Arts the qi that he would have started to cultivate since then wouldn’t have been as pure and would have tainted the base he built and ruined many of his efforts. So he modified the Heavenly Violet Divine Arts for it to create qi just as pure as the Equilibrum of Six that he used until then!
      I really really want to see what it will give in the future!!
      “the moment when Yin transforms into Yang”
      That reminds me of two things. The first one if when the plum blossoms bloom, which CM described the act of blooming as being the meaning of Hwasan’s martial art and an act of giving life, therefore Yin becoming Yang.
      The second thing it reminds me of is of CM’s living again. Which one die and go from Yang to Yin, CM then changed from Yin to Yang by coming back to life again.
      Could a deeped understanding of the Heavenly Violet Divine Art helps CM understand how the process of his reincarnation happened? It’s unlikely and it more likely will simply be related to the act of blooming, but it also makes sense to me. Everything about Hwasan’s Tao resonate with the cycle of life, and how even once they die, flowers will bloom again the following year. The moment when Yin become Yang, is the moment when the plum trees blossom.

      “And definitely, although everyone is waiting for his death, I also cannot say that I ‘hate’ Jang Ilso. A part of me wants him to stay alive. As you said, not all bad characters should be placed into a story to have redemption arcs, or otherwise get killed.”
      I am actually very attached as Jang Ilso as a character, he gives me a lot of feelings and I will mourn him when he die, he is beautifully written and has a lot of depth.
      But I also don’t think it would be right for him to survive, nor do I want him to. Not because I think he has to pay for his sins, but because I cannot conceive him stopping being someone that will destroy what is on his way and not care about the pain that he causes, and that to let him alive can only bring more pain to everyone, both cultivators and civilians alike.
      And which some people seem to think that JI as only recently started to be a threat to civilians, it is so incorrect it’s unfunny. JI which not having directly gone after the civilians before Wudang, his actions have many times caused great difficulties for them, and it was never any of his concern. For him the only reason to keep them alive and not too suffering is so they will be of use to him in the future. If his goal did not need civilians support or at least existence in the future, he wouldn’t have minded all of them dying, or even killing them all with his own hands if it furthered his goal. He would not to that, yes, but only because it would come bit him in the ass later and he doesn’t gain anything from it, that’s all.
      That’s why I don’t think he can be left alive, even if I can’t say I don’t care about him dying, even if it’s in greater part just because of how beautifully he is written, and because of how much his existence affects CM and his death likely will too, meaning it will affect me too as I read it.
      If everyone that did bad actions was killed, then no one would be left, but if someone with such great disaster potential -that has proven he is willing to act on it- is left alone, then it will be only more disastrous for the world.
      So I don’t think CM will spare him, and I don’t think sparring him would necessarily be good for him either, it’s simply that killing him will doom him in another way, a more personal way. But sparring him would doom him just as well I think, and it’s something I felt Dalai Lama understood when CM told him that killing JI is about responsabilities to him. If CM spares JI, then he will view every sins JI commits against other as his own fault for having spared JI, especially when knowing the kind of person he is.
      If CM spares JI, his moral will doom him. If CM kills JI, the part of him that sees himself in JI will doom him. All I hope is that the sentence Dalai Lama left to CM before leaving can really be a thread of light that will help him.

      I ended up looking for informations about the Dalai Lama, and then Panchen Lama, which ended up giving me information about the current (two) Panchen Lama, and now I am concerned??? I did not except that. But it’s also not the subject of this comment so I will have my crisis about this elsewhere.
      Thank you so much for sharing all that lore about the Dalai Lama, it is very interesting to me!

      I enjoyed reading it all! A lot! I have reread it several time before answering, because I wanted to be sure to be able to answer as fully as possible. I really appreciate that you share so much information with me so I wanted to show sincerity by not writing a half-hearted answer because I’m too tired to brainstorm as my best potential. It ended up really taking me a while though, which is why I’m only answering now. I hope the result was worth it!

      Liked by 1 person

  15. Trean Avatar
    Trean

    The comments are longer than this chapter of the novel 🤣 I always read the comments but now guys what is this there is a lot of talk you have

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Chu Avatar
      Chu

      Did you read it all? :0

      Like

  16. Bryan Avatar
    Bryan

    In the last chapter, I thought at first that the face he saw was Chung Mun, former sect leader, because of the talk of regret.

    Jang Ilso is much less interesting.

    However, if he does kill him, I am very intrigued to see the story without him. It feels so foreign and filled with possibilities, I am excited.

    Like

  17. Plum tea Avatar
    Plum tea

    everyone is writing a whole essays in the comment section.

    I didn’t hope for anything just be safe Chung Myung I want you to wreak havoc again

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Liar Avatar
    Liar

    If you expect me to read these comments, which are longer than the chapter… I will surprise you

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Chu Avatar
      Chu

      do not worry, it is not expected.

      Like

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